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So many stories about serpents. But are they about the Serpent?
Thanks to Din-Bidor,
meltedbee, and
xexnoncores for critique and feedback during the writing process.
"But after the most violent storms, the ones that send dozens of cloud-chasers spiraling towards the crushing depths, pass, the cloud-chasers whisper tales of their compatriots' fate over electromagnetic fields"
Another form of separation could be use to separate out 'the ones that send dozens of cloud-chasers spiraling towards the crushing depths', like dashes or parentheses. It would be less confusing.
"It's said that most petitioners are taken by the Lord of the Depths before they can ask a single question and added to his collection"
I would say added to his collection before 'before they can ask a single question'.
"The Mkeun wrestle over each other to sup mere droplets of the venom."
Ignore at your leisure, it just jumped out to me more than it probably should have to have used sup/supped twice in a fairly short span. Another synonym may be a slightly better reading experience but honestly it's no big deal either way.
"When they're crossing through the Pyandor Reach, they're in the karst fields"
This implies they're in two places at once. Do you mean the serpent is in the karst fields?
Overall, I really like this piece and aside from some mild nitpicks it's ready to go.
P.S. I think the order works well as is. Maybe it could be re-ordered in a sort of less-enlightened to more-enlightened tellings order? That might be interesting, but I think it's okay as it stands.
radiance, glorious and cold and blistering all at once, like a star behind the eyes
1. It's set in stone that it's Transrealmology. I can't do anything about it.
2. I do have a problem with redundancy. Thank you.
"When asked about his favorite work of literature, General William Sherman replied, 'I am quite fond of Umamusume: Pretty Derby.' Many reporters were left confused, as such a work was nonexistent. When one inquired about what that was, General Sherman responded with a swift uppercut, knocking the reporter unconscious. Further questions were denied."
Black hole sun, won't you come? Won't you come?
very interesting, i envy your ability to make a seemingly simple event feel so chaotic in such little time.
"—I said, with a posed look."
reflections
poet
Good classic WL stuff. My only issue is the line "The food provided to the host is devoured, used to produce more eggs by the thousands and millions until the gaunt body of the host swells with them.", which is a bit unclear about whether it's being metaphorical or literal, even though it feels it should provide the main emotional punch of the story.
read YONQ
or, why you shouldn't thug it out.
Thank you to Plilt and
UncannyClown for critique.
Uses the setting of my in-progress CYOA game, Skeleton Crew.
radiance, glorious and cold and blistering all at once, like a star behind the eyes
It's definitely not too long—if anything it felt a little short. While I definitely get the vibe you're going for and I like the atmosphere you create, it does feel like more time spent developing the ideas you're working with would have made this more impactful. This feels like a segment of a story rather than a complete one, and while I get the shape of the characters involved it still leaves me wanting more.
Stylistically, I really liked how the first word of each paragraph in the first section was italicized. Switching to paragraphs without the use of that italicized beginning was fine, but you might want to rephrase some of the paragraphs where you've got italicized actions in the middle of the paragraph.
Other than that, you mention Ollie but I'm not sure if they're either the Coach or the person talking in this line:
“Angel! Tighten up that finish.”
Naming the speaker would help, I think.
hi!!! i'm going to keep this more or less brief because i feel that i have less things to say, but wanted to share nonetheless.
the last two events were pretty fun! i've never been more involved in the site, the flow and presentation of rules were easy to follow, smooth outing all around, props to the organizers & marshals.
i've noticed the crit forums have been in a recession, partly due to the two consecutive events that happened and people being mentally exhausted and drained and stuff, but seconding what Uncanny said, i think a title like "critter of the month" would help greatly, similar to the critchamp thing. i know it's not a one-and-done solution to stagnation—just something that would be nice and satisfying to have! also, i don't mind reading/writing for old canons, a mini event around that would be nice.
my experience as a newcomer has been nothing but delight. although, i can understand the frustration when it comes to sparse communication from active staff about plans for the future. i don't doubt that the people who manage and facilitate the site really do care about it, and i've met so many cool people who share the same sentiment and want to make wonderful things for everyone too. i've always wanted to belong somewhere, to be part of a larger project that isn't about me, and this place makes me feel like i've been here all along, and i was just wandering by myself.
i've always thought that my writing is too simple. at the same time, it's also too purple. excessive emphasis on the flowery vibes, unbelievably pretentious, and trying to impress instead of honing in on the emotional core. but nothing could replace the joy of making things for the site. i actually could see myself improving, just by putting stuff out there. for once, i didn't care too much if it looked amateurish. my goal was to have fun. i want to thank WL for giving me the opportunity to express myself to this extent. i haven't been able to do that anywhere else. it means the world. that's all! thank you so much.
as for yummy meals, i ate fried egg and pata stew today.
- red
Unfortunately, the style wasn't enough to draw me in and the subject matter didn't interest me enough.
I need a LBL of the piece in the first tab here. In addition, I'd appreciate any thoughts on the order in which the pieces are placed and if reviewers think another order would work better thematically or have a better flow.
Good question
I discovered your work with this chapter, and I have to say, I really like it, the only problem I have is the term 'Transrealmology', as I first read it 'trans-real-mology' and I think it could be clearer, maybe using the word tunneling, as the realms seem to be stacked on one another, and it could be understood as tunneling through realms to reach a certain destination. Though, I don't know if 'Realmology' really suffers of the same problem.
Also, "The persistence of the Nationguards was proven at the Battle of the Docks, although there wasn't enough mechanized support to cover the infantry from the Earth-Humans. Although only a few vehicles stayed behind…" You're repeating 'although' here, which sounds weird, maybe try 'Though…' or 'Despite the fact the that…' in place of the second one.
"Do not sneer at the mad, their madness lasts longer than ours, that is all the difference."
really happy that it's finally here.
on the discord
it's good! i think my prior remarks on how to make the chat better were mostly a misdiagnosis, and chat has improved an enormous amount with just a better policing of immaturity and a greater culture of users being able to reach out to staff with issues. i think it's in a good place right now, and i've been greatly heartened to see a lot of the people expressing disillusionment and sadness in the first thread returning to the server and existing in harmony again.
discourses on the rating module
the rating module does a few things that i find agreeable:
1. it allows me to make it known that i have read and liked a piece in situations where i lack the time/energy/inclination/coherency of thought to leave a constructive comment.
2. it allows other people to do the same with my work.
3. it takes the temperature of how many people are reading the site and dialed in at least enough to make use of the lowest-effort form of engagement possible.
4. through the "top rated by month" page, it allows for mapping out how site readership and taste have changed over time, which i personally find interesting even if the practical utility is low.
i would miss all of these things if the rating module were flatly abolished, and i suspect that the produced effect would be, at best, an increase in low-effort comments that communicate exactly the same sentiment as a vote but take up more space. all that said, i acknowledge some problems with our current system that people justifiably want to see remedied:
1. having downvotes and using them for deletion purposes makes it so that posting here means subjecting the fate of your piece to the whims of people who may completely disregard what you're trying to do, impose bizarre interpretations that misunderstand surface-level elements of the text on you, or just not give you a reason for downvoting at all. scp gets away with this because the implicit contract you sign when you post there includes a pre-built audience; our pre-built audience consists of approximately six people, so we will always see more discontent with the system here, even if it almost never actually results in pieces that aren't spam/bigotry being deleted.
2. the existence of tools that keep meticulous track of every page and author's vote totals/rankings leads to people getting invested in the number as a measure of success and caring about it too much. at best, this is mildly annoying for people who don't care as much. at worst, this causes people to get their self-worth tied up in dubious metrics and crash out when the metrics aren't where they want them to be.
i believe that it is possible to tweak the current system without abolishing it altogether in a way that at least gets close to solving these problems while retaining the things i like about our current system:
1. switch the rating module to upvote-only (i know this is possible to do because the scp commune did it before) and have staff unilaterally decide if something warrants deletion according solely to the rules we already have for prohibited content. this solves the first problem right off the bat.
2. make it official content policy that the rating module has to be at the bottom of the page, rather than the top. this de-emphasizes the module and makes people at least a little less likely to look at it as a measuring stick of great importance
3. remove the list of top-rated pages of the month from the front page; make people navigate to the top-rated by month page on the sidebar if they want access to that information. this will, i hope, have the same effect as measure #2.
4. see if we can get smlt to scrub all the vote stuff (page ratings, author vote totals, author vote rankings) from crom results for the library website. i have no idea if this is feasible or if he would do it, but i reckon it's worth a shot, and removing the popularity ladder would do a lot for issue #2, i think.
if we can get all of this stuff done, and there are people who maintain their unhealthy relationship to the number, i feel that such a distorted perception cannot reasonably be taken on as the library's problem. we're a very small website that lacks the insidious metric-driven infrastructure of modern social media; i think we can handle having a basic like button if the gamification stuff is taken away.
some miscellaneous ideas i have in my head
doing all of this would require more hands on deck than staff currently have, but my understanding is that this is known and in the process of being addressed.
a word on perception
for most of february, i was on one of my breaks from the discord server. i tend to keep my reasons for going on such trips into the wilderness confined to the dms of a few understanding friends, but i will disclose the reason for this most recent one: i was frustrated. i was frustrated by how long this thread was taking to get made, how little activity there seemed to be from much of staff, and how little urgency there seemed to be when it came to attending to anything. i was struggling to sit around and be contented with promises that things were in the works and just needed more time because i have already spent so long waiting, first for new staff to be brought on, then for wing three contest to happen, then for any sign that the feedback given in the first iteration of this thread was being translated into tangible action. i like talking to people in the discord about whatever we fancy, but i cannot treat wl purely like a social club because it has been too many other things for me. i felt myself crawling up the walls of my own skull looking at the discord, so i stepped away. i returned because, despite my issues with the apparent inertia, this place is still populated by a lot of wickedly creative and interesting people of a sort that i've never found elsewhere online, and i still feel that i have a lot to give when opportunities arise, if not as a writer then at least through venues like this.
my hopes for this site are, i feel, pretty modest. last year, we had three major events: the sss, wing three contest, and yuletide. i would be interested in not more than one more major collaborative event and one more major contest per year, with smaller events like writprompt interspersed between. right now, pieces tend to cap out at ten or 15 votes; i would like for that number to be in the 20s. right now, it seems like most staff responsibility is on the shoulders of around four people; i would like for that figure to be doubled, with non-staff organizers and critters as they are needed. right now, people tend to keep mostly to their own corners and spin their own wheels; i would like for there to be a little more of a balance between that and the collaborative element of what we do here, which i also think would boost site participation and help with some of my other hopes. i don't feel that any of this is excessive in its ambition, and i really don't want us to be a very large or overly bustling website — the slower, more relaxed vibe is a major part of this place's appeal over scp for me. if wl ever gets to a level of motion where it becomes infeasible to keep up with every new piece, where people begin splintering into sidechats because the main discord is too overcrowded, then i think we will have gone too far and lost a major part of the magic. however, i think that we can grow quite a bit before those concerns become material, and i don't think it'll take an enormous overhaul of preexisting infrastructure or a staff coup or anything like that. what i think it will take is a greater understanding among staff of how your work is perceived.
a thing that i am sure is easy to lose sight of as a member of staff is that regular users don't have access to any information you don't actively make available to them. staffchat isn't public, and the librarian's desk is never used as a public-facing hub for discussion — what we see is the posts you make on the forums and the announcements that you make on the discord. if most of those posts and announcements are made by one person, it looks like that person is doing all the work. if your contributions as a member of staff are mostly confined to staffchat, it looks like you've gone dark and aren't pulling your weight. when you say that you only need life stuff to let up in order to have the time and energy necessary to be more involved, but your wikidot activity continues to dwindle for months and years, and you only occasionally pop in publicly to be part of an event or handle some routine business, it looks like you've moved on from the site and are refusing to let go of the steering wheel. i don't know how true that actually is, and that's kind of a problem, right? in the face of such a dearth of insight, it's easy to assume that the people responsible for maintaining this place have flown the coup without giving the car keys to someone else, which is a very demoralizing and frustrating thing to get to thinking as someone who cares deeply about this place and the people who make it what it is. all of this is also assuming that it's not actually the case that staff is 50% inactives, which i don't have confidence in based on what i've heard from insiders, but i've already said my piece about the need to cycle out the truly inactive and bring new blood in.
i already expressed my desire for some form of regular update on what staff are doing in the discord earlier today, but i feel it warrants repeating. please talk to us. let us know what you're thinking of doing and what you're actually doing. this thread is a good step, but three months is a long time to wait for any sort of an update for people who log on every day. keeping everything contained in private channels and only handing down announcements when you're fully ready to pull the trigger on an action is, at least for me, extraordinarily painful, and i don't get the sense that staff feel the same urgency about this stuff that i do. i get the impression that the prevailing belief is that wl can always depend on the steady activity of at least a handful of lifers, and these people will be around whenever staff happen to be ready to act, but i don't know if that's actually true. we're already seeing some stalwarts either jump ship or decline in activity for reasons unrelated to drama, and they're not being replaced. the community is not preserved in amber while you're away; the stakes are that people are going to leave and not come back or have their absences filled by others. i expect that the pace of these steps can only be accelerated by so much, but steady communication and a defined sense of plan would make the weight much more bearable, at least for me. more than the stuff about the rating module and events, i hope that's your main takeaway from all of this. i don't want to accuse or badger anyone; i just want the library to be what i feel and hope it can be. i hope to look back on my brief absence and this post as stepping stones to a more vibrant, robust, and active community. thank you for reading this whole thing.
the best food i've had recently
this wonderful cheese plate i had as an appetizer at a restaurant just tonight. two different kinds of cheddar, dried cherries, nuts seasoned with christmas spices, dried figs, and bread fried in butter. to die for.
poet
hello everyone and it's time for another round of community circle! our first one, last fall, was a smashing success, giving staff tons of great ideas and concepts, allowing us to take the community temperature, and generally fostering a lot of dialogue between staff and the broader community.
it's my goal to promote a cycle where we allow for a semi-regular community circle (perhaps quarterly or so) to get some official feedback and conversation on-site with more regularity, and also to serve as a repository for community input in a more accessible and legible fashion than discussion on, say, discord.
a brief recap of some of the points raised in the last community circle as well as an explanation for gaps in staff activity (please note that this section is directly copy and pasted from a staff post i made on the discord server, but here it shall be held for posterity):
basically immediately after the first community circle thread we had a really busy season with two large and time consuming events, and then into the new year we faced a few temporary staff shortages due to irl stuff, some of which persist, so naturally that has slowed down forward momentum. relatedly we understand that this means we need to find and onboard new staff. we want to avoid situations that have happened in the past with onboarding where new staff members can feel overwhelmed by discovering duties, responsibilities, and expectations of conduct piecemeal, so we are putting together procedures to make that onboarding process more coherent and smoother. we have a target for that by the end of february which means that once that is complete we will be able to look at bringing on new staff.
related to that is the idea that some staff members might be more in specific roles rather than just mods and admins. we are also strongly considering having community roles that arent strictly staff (doing the moderating and upkeep) but that do things like generate events.
i have noticed that there has been a big improvement with the general tone of discussion on the discord server which was a big concern for many people posting on the thread. additionally it seems that more people are more comfortable pinging or dming staff, which is something that we asked for, and it has led to active mods being able to handle things more directly and immediately more often.
i'm currently personally exploring solutions for a reading club that do not involve discord due to the age verification policy specifically targeting stages. twitch is a possibility. would be really interested in new staff or community organizers working on putting this together with me!
we are in discussion about some of the following things/some of these things are guaranteed but are waiting until prior steps are taken place like bringing on new staff:
in the interest of transparency some things that were raised that we are not considering:
many of the things above are sea changes for the site that cut against years-long norms and expectations and if and when we roll it out, we want it to be done right. this isnt a promise but i'm suspecting some of our short-term slowdowns to resolve in the very near (next days and weeks) future at which point some of the things that have been started or set up from the list above will be completed or advanced.
please feel free to post below with any comments, feedback, questions, etc. we're going to keep it kind, constructive, and respectful as always. this time will be a bit less formal than the first as this circle serves slightly different purposes. however, if you choose to post, please conclude with your favorite food you have eaten in the last few weeks. this is of the utmost importance.
we welcome your thoughts and feedback knowing that together we can continue to make the wanderers' library even better!
so is there a super contagious virus on the forum where the hell is everyone
"When asked about his favorite work of literature, General William Sherman replied, 'I am quite fond of Umamusume: Pretty Derby.' Many reporters were left confused, as such a work was nonexistent. When one inquired about what that was, General Sherman responded with a swift uppercut, knocking the reporter unconscious. Further questions were denied."
Returning to posting on the WL with this piece.
Looking for some feedback, so I can get it tightened up and of acceptable quality to post.
http://wanderers-sandbox-2.wikidot.com/meltedbee
Last tab. Mostly curious about if the story goes on too long, if the vibes are right, and if it makes sense. Anything else is appreciated too.
Thank you in advance,
Rosie
radiance, glorious and cold and blistering all at once, like a star behind the eyes
Very nice story, do you plan on starting a series in the world described, after the death of Paradinus ? If so, I would read it happily.I like it
"Do not sneer at the mad, their madness lasts longer than ours, that is all the difference."
Did some changes, though a few things stayed the same for rythm's sake, I changed my now favorite line in all my writing :
"as the artist sees true art lying forth for the first time…"
It sounds rly good imo
The measurements are absolutely necessary, they allow you to understand the degree of obsession of the artist and the public, who know the exact sizes of every element of the piece. I did keep a few redundancies for emphasis, as, with the rythm of spoken words (which imo is the best rythm to read) it sounds good.
The ridiculousness of the amount of money in play is absolutely meant, for this story is one of absolute ridiculous proportions.
I did add a disappointed face at the end, but I'm not sure if it's good or not, the problem is that I want to add a way for whomever speaks in a different font to show that emotion and not just tell us. This also adds just enough personality to that character to create a fun effect. If it's really shocking, it's what I am most willing to change.
"Do not sneer at the mad, their madness lasts longer than ours, that is all the difference."
Overall, it's a very detailed story about a man who goes mad over perfecting his art. I appreciate how much detail is poured into a small amount of text. You did good with this story, though the "What a waste" line is unneeded and honestly too edgy for the story. The guy running over the painting is a good enough closer.
"When asked about his favorite work of literature, General William Sherman replied, 'I am quite fond of Umamusume: Pretty Derby.' Many reporters were left confused, as such a work was nonexistent. When one inquired about what that was, General Sherman responded with a swift uppercut, knocking the reporter unconscious. Further questions were denied."